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eirini_kl
Post #623505
Member

5:20 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 30


Okay, I've just about had it with all of you who act like it's the end of the world or trash talk the site because of removing the group links. It took me only a few hours to go to batoto, find the links of every group whose manga I've been following and store them in a separate Favorites folder, so all I have to do now is one more click to get to the homepage of the group I want. And I'll just do the same if a new group I like appears. As long as the updates appear regularly and the group names are mentioned you can always find them one way or another. And no one can force MU to remove plain text information as that would constitute censorship and not even the DMCA can get away with that. It's true that the legal claim of whoever filed the complaint is dubious but all of you have to keep in mind that MU is not some corporation but a site run by everyday people who only wanted to provide information about manga, not get entangled in lawsuits that might go on for years and totally mess up their lives in the process. And if there's any danger of them shutting the site down it would be because of they'll get sick of all those who'd rather grumble about how MU can't stand up to the big companies (honestly, I'd really like to see anyone of those smartasses trying to hold his own against a legal fight with a corporation) rather than finding a way to adapt. There are always ways, as long as you're not too lazy to do something about it.

Great
Post #623507
user avatar
Come and Go
Member

6:06 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 311


Well said. I agree. Stop complaining. Just take it or leave it. cool
I was already following manga from the era even before IRC (gotlurk) got dominant, so I dont think this would affect much. BUT, if MangaUpdates is gone entirely, now thats a tough one. But I wouldnt have any place to react because this forum would also gone, right? no
So enough talk, brace yourself, and just take it as a manga lover, we will find the way. biggrin

Reyalsdog
Post #623512
Member

6:59 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 29


Daily reminder that we already have script that fixed everything.

Psychameleon
Post #623517
user avatar
yaranaika?
Member

8:07 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 80


Eh, as long as releases and group names are mentioned, it's good enough for me. Not a big deal.
(and well, there's this script too, thanks to anon)

________________
*heavy breathing*
T1
Post #623524 - Reply to (#623505) by eirini_kl
user avatar
The H Emperor
Member

9:41 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 453


Yes, only 1 hour. Now think of the idiots like me who read nearly everything out there. How many do we have to add to our folders? How many hours do we have to spend?

Also let's not forget the groups whose name changes and the ones whose title never pops up on batoto. I know you are trying to be help but some of us have already thought about this before speaking....even if we do not sound like we did.

I agree with your DMCA reason which is why it would have been great if we could have seen the message. I seem to repeat myself for people and here. If we knew what was written on it maybe we could help finding out how to overcome it together. As you said, there are always ways. biggrin

I could hold mine against a legal corporation if I never did anything wrong. As I said before: This is like piratebay just without torrents so if piratebay isn't illlegal, then this site is totally not illegal.


PROzess
Post #623525 - Reply to (#623505) by eirini_kl
user avatar
Pissed Off TL0r
Member

9:58 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 97


Now add another hour for when you search that damn folder every time a release is made.

Mangafox ftw, everything on one place.

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Reyalsdog
Post #623529 - Reply to (#623525) by PROzess
Member

10:17 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 29


Quote from PROzess
Mangafox ftw

0/10. Go be fat somewhere else.

Diokhan
Post #623532
Member

10:32 am, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 210


my apologies for not reading through the whole thread, so this may have already been answered, but may i ask; what exactly constitutes as "linking" in this scenario? is simply stating a group's web address without it linking directly to their site considered as breaking the terms of this DMCA?

unless it's explicitly stated otherwise, as i see it, there's just no big difference whether or not a group's address is being put up for show; if you have it up (again, without it linking to their site) , users can copy/paste up on the url bar. otherwise, users can simply google for the group to access their site.

the only difference here is that the former is slightly more convenient (made even more convenient with the help of certain add-ons/extensions) than the latter.

soyokaze
Post #623557 - Reply to (#623512) by Reyalsdog
user avatar
Member

3:39 pm, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 22


From what I see the script works by importing links not from sites database, but from from the script itself. That means that if a new group is added to the site, it's link still won't appear unless you exchange the whole script for a newer version. The same thing with updating old links - if a group changes its address, the script will still display the old one. I have no idea how it can be fixed, I'm no programmer. You'd have to have access to MU database for it to work properly.

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MewMan
Post #623558 - Reply to (#623082) by eirini_kl
user avatar
hmm~
Member

3:53 pm, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 934


Quote from eirini_kl
Mangafox has its servers in China, which means it's not subject to US law and therefore the DMCA can't control it. Well, the only thing to be done is google the scanlator sites we read manga from and store the adresses to a favorites list. It's a bit more work but nothing we can't handle. The most i ...

time for Mangaupdates to get a server in New Zealand like MegaUpload?

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kitty1826x
Post #623562 - Reply to (#623524) by T1
user avatar
Me too ♥
Member

4:29 pm, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 1000


There are some key differences between the Piratebay and MU. (going to shorten Piratebay to PB)
- MU is US based (I believe); PB is not. ( I believe it is currently based in the Seychelles, but is still Swedish )
- PB has had A LOT more money than MU. ( Most likely from all the ads)
- PB is ran by an organisation rather than individuals, unlike MU.

PB is technically not illegal
Quote from Piratebay website
Only torrent files are saved at the server. That means no copyrighted and/or illegal material are stored by us. It is therefore not possible to hold the people behind The Pirate Bay responsible for the material that is being spread using the tracker. Any complaints from copyright and/or lobby organizations will be ridiculed and published at the site.


As much as the US likes to step into things that do not concern them, they can't do much about sites where the sever is in a different country.



(going to start talking about something else)
- I started wondering how many notices did MU receive that the DMCA suspended the paypal account to this site. ( To me it seems as if MU got a few of them before that suspension).
- Still wondering who is filing against MU of the copyright.
- Why can't you just have plain text of the groups websites up?
I can understand not having links up, but I believe they can't do anything about plain text.

As I've said in another post on this thread. When it comes copyright violations MU has done nothing wrong. Mu does not give downloads, and doesn't allow info on where to get downloads.
When it comes to Contributory Infringement and Vicarious Liability that is the only way the DMCA may have a case.
For Vicarious Liability, it would be thrown out as this is a free site, with free membership, and no profits are made. Only donations to keep the site running (Which I assume is mainly for the domain name).
For Contributory Infringement, the person(or group I guess) that's making the claim against MU has to prove that MU has knowledge that the links they share lead to downloads of unauthorized material. Also MU does not encourage downloads which contributory infringement need the person to induce the illegal activity. [ For anyone interested in reading about [url=http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat072204.html ]Contributory Infringement and Vicarious Liability [/url] or go to the home page of that site for more copyright info]
Quote from MU-FAQ
That's right. We aren't a download service, and we do not encourage downloading licensed manga series. If you like a series, go buy it and help out the anime and manga industry. I'm sure they will appreciate it.


To wrap this up MU has done nothing wrong when it comes to copyright, and the methods DMCA used should not have been used. ( Really am wondering if other notices were sent and ignored ...)

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I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
So keep in mind I'm filled with typos

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Gradonil_Ral
Post #623578
user avatar
[ONeoRa] Co-Admin
Member

6:58 pm, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 194


Okay, for those of you who are too lazy to google the groups' infos and are using Firefox:

1. Install this: http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/batoto-groups/
2. Activate the Batoto Groups search in your browser's bar for search engines.
3. Select a group's name (here or anywhere else on the net).
4. Right-click and click on [Search Batoto Groups for "<your-selection"]
5. Choose the group you want from the list that shows up (depends on how common the name is) and visit their website.


You can also use this addon to be able to choose from more then one search engine at once:
http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/selected-search/

And this one to be able to automatically make your own "search engines" for your browser (without installing each one separately):
http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/add-to-search-bar /




Last edited by Gradonil_Ral at 12:14 am, Dec 7

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Reyalsdog
Post #623597 - Reply to (#623557) by soyokaze
Member

10:00 pm, Dec 6 2013
Posts: 29


Quote
You'd have to have access to MU database for it to work properly.

Well, duh. It either MU staff should make add-on for browsers from this and update constantly, or at least update script itself, or it won't work in a long term and for masses of dumb people. But I don't see any enthusiasm about this from MU staff at all, or we already would have all of this by now.

For now you yourself can update groups who matter to you:
1. Open script in notepad or whatever.
2. Ctrl+F number of group's page.
3. Change old URL to new.
4. Save.

or add new (if you know/find their site URL):
1. Open script in notepad or whatever.
2. Add number of group's page and URL.
3. Save.

Last edited by Reyalsdog at 10:06 pm, Dec 6

CuteManabi
Post #623604
user avatar
Member

12:17 am, Dec 7 2013
Posts: 4


This is a pretty dastardly move on the part of someone, and it's quite possible it's the company the copyright holder hired trying to push the law past its limits than the actual copyright holders doing it.

What they have demanded is pretty blatantly unconstitutional on its face, and you need legal help ASAP. You should contact the EFF, read this page here. If they won't take the case personally, they will offer to refer it to their mailing list. I have a friend who's had to do this once, he got contacted by a first amendment lawyer offering pro-bono advice within a few days. They were immensely helpful and nothing ever came of the threat.

Don't let them get away with this, this is the kind of thing first amendment lawyers love to fight against. Your site has already taken actions to make it not be a source of piracy (removing download links, which happened a long time ago). And don't think this will be the end of it. These types of organizations are never satisfied. They WILL be back with further demand in the future. Contact the EFF, get a lawyer on your side, and put a stop to it.

As a side note: These types of threats tend to vanish really, really quickly when they find out you have a lawyer who knows what they're doing. They prey on the weak and uninformed counting on people not knowing their rights and not having the money to get a lawyer. That's why the EFF exists, and why many lawyers are willing to help pro-bono to stop this crap.

Volos
Post #623608 - Reply to (#623604) by CuteManabi
Member

1:52 am, Dec 7 2013
Posts: 3


I'm inclined to agree that most of these notices tend to be paper dragons.

I don't know many people that would take a case like this totally pro bono, that is, without even a little non-profit funding support. You're talking $20k easy just to handle all the federal filings and get the thing set up for trial. The hope would be after you get to that point you can settle, as going to trial is going to cost a lot more.

You might get some council to write an angry letter or two and give you some very good specific advice pro bono, and again you should start looking to local to where ever you are. More than the EFF, which does a lot of good, I recommend you check out your local ACLU chapter.

And now that we are all talking about how much all these things cost, I also recommend people think about putting their money where their mouth is as soon as a donation mechanism is working. Again a law firm can set an escrow pretty easily for this.

While you are at it, donate to the EFF and ACLU for exactly the same reason. Posting here is easy. Giving online is hard. I bet we can find a manga that deals with choosing the hard path...

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